Wales King Scallop Advisory Group meeting: 6 March 2025

Stakeholders: Jim Evans (JE), Mark Roberts (MR), Brett Garner (BG), Chris Chambers (CC), Alexander Scorey (AS – NRW), Sophie Bennett (SB - Seafish), Nicola Cusack (NC - MCS), Natalie Hold (NH - BU), David Beard (DB),

WG: Chair - Julian Bray (JB), Alun Mortimer (AM), Seb Evans (SE), Barrie John (BJ)

• JB welcomed group to first meeting of 2025, 6^th meeting since group formed.
• Some absences today unfortunately. Please send apologies if unable to attend. Rescheduling is possible if we know in advance.
• Previously we’ve noted that some scallop stocks are shared with the Isle of Man (IOM). Bangor and Welsh Government have close links with IOM, like to introduce Dr David Beard who has kindly agreed to attend in an advisory capacity.
• JB briefly reviewed activity and progress to date since group established in January 2024. Since last meeting, the Deputy First Minister has given clearance to prepare consultation on proposed changes to scallop measures and we have shared the implementation plan.
• In response to questions, JB confirmed that all relevant internal teams have agreed to timeframe although it will be tight to deliver legislation before March 2026. 

• AM thanked group for comments on previous meetings notes and the draft changes to measures/framework. These have been incorporated as far as possible.
• One outstanding action to update scientific evidence paper to show how group can contribute.
• No issues were raised with the 7 August notes.
• DB commented that IOM is adopting a similar REM system to Scottish Government for over 12m vessels by end of June. Represents half the fleet. Additional lead-in time for UK vessels.
• JB noted WG is part of an intergovernmental forum to discuss how REM should be coordinated at UK level.

• Have reviewed the ToR and FMP Overview. Group agreed no need to make changes at this stage. Overview paper may need to be revised following consultation.
• Do not have a buyer or processor as representative on the group yet but will invite one if opportunity arises.
• In response to a request, the group decided meeting at 3pm (rather than later) is agreeable. 

• Defra commissioned Seafish to review regulations across boundaries in UK zone. The draft report has been shared. Note that this is not the final report so could change. Part of FMP aim of considering alignment across boundaries.
• We did similar exercise but with a focus on boundaries to the Welsh zone.
• Seafish have identified a few other potential changes worth considering, including:
  • Align offshore dredge limit with Scotland (14 per side)
  • Increase MCRS to 110mm.
  • Explore alignment of temporary closures in English waters.
  • Explore opportunities around REM.
  • Align engine power limit in 0-12nm to be same as Wales.
  • Modify belly ring spec to align with IOM and N Ireland (75mm) or France (97mm).

Points made in discussion: 

• DB advised that IOM belly ring size is 75mm but trialling move to 85mm. Some tests with French belly ring sizes. Need to be aware that French dredge design is different so effect of belly ring size is not directly comparable. Also to note that French stock grows so fast they can harvest a high proportion in each year class but in IOM, need a more varied age distribution for resilience against more volatile population changes.
• Vessel engine horsepower not the determining factor these days. Key thing is amount of gear you can pull. Therefore, dredge limits are more important than power.
• Some 16 per side EU vessels do come right up to the 12nm boundary. Not many vessels use over 14 per side so could be reasonable to set same as Scotland.
• Scotland have already introduced REM for scallop dredging so provides a model to learn from. Discussions on REM interoperability between administrations are ongoing.

Discussion on proposals arranged by topic: 

Dredge specifications

• Paper proposes 85mm as belly ring size. Stakeholders suggested 75mm would be better to align with NI. Stakeholders explained that there is a difference between the belly rings on the bottom of the dredge bag and those at the back of the bag (the half back). If the rings in the half back have to be 85mm, lots of legal sized scallop would be lost. So need to be very clear about dredge design in any changes.
• A “knitted” bag on back could solve problem for 85mm belly rings.
• Need to know the purpose of making it 85mm for all rings and measure results. Always going to have to sort catch on deck to some degree.  
• An anticipated benefit of larger belly rings is catching fewer undersized scallop. Understand there is more work to be done to compare impact of dredging on undersized scallop left on the seabed vs those caught and returned. There may be learning on this from research elsewhere. NH may be able to gather info from colleagues working in Baie de Seine.
• There are trials on different dredge designs being undertaken elsewhere. As such, there is a strong case for being able to update dredge specification requirements from time to time. Government would still need to consult affected parties and would aim to give appropriate notice and lead-in time to changes. It was felt that a year is a good starting point for changes like belly ring size so fishers can experiment and find what works. 

Vessel monitoring systems (VMS)

• Consensus that standardising transmission rates to 10 minute intervals throughout zone and across all vessel sizes is sensible.
• Some research being done on the ideal location transmission frequency for different fisheries. Might be that evidence emerges for shorter frequency best for dredging or potting in future. Sensible to have ability to change polling frequency. Some existing systems transmit more frequent than 10 minutes anyway.
• Need to consider cost benefit if reducing frequency below 10 minutes, particularly for smaller vessels.

Remote electronic monitoring (REM)

• Have discussed pros and cons of REM previously.
• Initially, Wales would only be aiming to introduce the simplest form of REM possible. Focus will be gear-in, gear-out sensors and transmission data to minimise cost.
• It was noted that it might not be possible to have the full array of gear on smaller vessels as per the Scottish system. Even then, for vessels who only fish scallop for short periods, having gear on board the rest of the time would be a problem.
• Work still to do on the exact specification and given the reliance on technology, best practice could change a lot in coming years so aim will be to be able to adjust requirements as appropriate.   

Minimum Conservation Reference Size (MCRS)

• 2010 Order does allow for carriage of king scallops under 110mm, even if caught lawfully outside the 0-12nm area. Do not believe there is any scientific reason for difference in MCRS within the Welsh zone. Consensus that increasing MCRS to 110mm throughout the Welsh zone is positive. 

Permit system for Welsh zone

• Aim will be to have one permit for the Welsh zone and use permit conditions to manage fishery adaptively. This would include being able to require different measures in different parts of the zone depending on what is best for different stocks, methods, vessels etc.
• Permit would apply to anyone with license to fish in UK zone.
• Consensus that this is a positive development.

Seasonal closures

• There are different seasonal closures in the Welsh zone. The reason for the closures appears to be to protect scallops while spawning but the difference in timings of the closures may simply be a legacy from different jurisdictional changes over recent decades.
• Aim will be an initial closure throughout the Welsh zone from May to October as per 2010 Order. If evidence emerges that different stocks would benefit from different closures in future, need to be able to respond to that.
• Some evidence that spawning is mainly in the spring and early autumn. There could be potential for a summer hand dive fishery close to shore and this could be explored. Mitigations such as a larger MCRS may be necessary to satisfy an HRA for this kind of change. 

Catch limits and recording

• King scallops seem to congregate in 3 distinct areas in the Welsh zone. Aim will be to be able to set catch limits for each stock based on evidence to ensure sustainability.
• Unfortunately, in order to be able to manage the stocks responsively, it is likely that we will need to require catch returns which could be as regular as daily. Officials understand that this is an additional reporting requirement and will endeavour to make as simple as possible. IOM experience is that real time reporting has be crucial in improving stocks. Need to be aware that this measure could face some friction from fishers.
• Positive comments about the IOM catch recording form which can be completed on a mobile phone and takes about 5 minutes daily.
• At present, different vessels have different catch recording and reporting requirements. As some of these are international agreements, it is not possible to redesign the system from scratch for all vessels.
• We have also included the ability to set time limits on fishing to have that tool in the box as used to good effect elsewhere. 

Fishing methods / metiers 

• Fishing for scallops with illuminated pots has become a hot topic recently. DB advised that trials in the IOM have found this method to deliver variable results. Not trialled hand diving in the IOM yet.
• If potting does take off, will need to control activity quickly to avoid overfishing.
• Reminder that the FMP applies to all king scallop removals so all methods need to be accounted for and managed if appropriate.
• Should be possible to incorporate potting into new permit structure. 

Queen scallops

• Some cross-over in fishing for king and queen scallops but not part of the king scallop FMP. Note the increase in MCRS to 55mm being considered. Might not be able to include this but Defra have consulted for England and if they move on it, would be good to be able to do same.
• DB advised that MCRS for queen scallop is 55mm and it is a shared stock. Increasing the MCRS in Wales would be beneficial for the stock as a whole and have positive impact on IOM stocks. Increased size gives another year of spawning before being caught. You need to catch twice as many animals at the smaller size to get the same meat yield. It is also difficult to grade smaller animals within 10% tolerance of the lawful MCRS.
• If Defra bring in the change for England, it will only make a small difference because most of the queen scallop stocks are in Manx waters and Welsh zone.  

Other

• Discussion about incorporating surveys with industry activity. DB explained that in IOM, industry surplus catch and survey catch sold to fund surveys. Combination of industry survey and academic survey gives good variety of data to understand stocks.
• Each boat can get the survey gear but each has different catchability which needs to be considered in comparing industry and scientific survey data – and the last 12 years of data.
• No plan to do this in Wales at present but very interesting for future consideration.  

Consultation

• AM advised that when we get the go ahead to launch the consultation, we will need to move quickly. Discussion about best ways to engage all interested stakeholders. Group members able to pass on links and messages to associations and have tried and tested digital media notice boards (Whatsapp, email). AM happy to set up call re any concerns.
• Feel free to send me an email if you want to raise anything not discussed or provide further evidence.
• If the list shared proves too complicated to do, we may have to leave some changes for another time in the interest of making some changes in the short-term. 

• No other business raised.
• Next step is to finalise and launch consultation.
• We’ll be in touch regarding future meeting. Meeting closed.