Human Rights Legislative Options Working Group meeting: 14 November 2024

Charles Whitmore (CW) (Chair), WCVA / Cardiff University Wales Governance Centre
Dr Emily Kakoullis (EK), Cardiff University
Alicja Zalesinska (AZ), Tai Pawb
Rhian Davies (RD), Disability Wales
Jessica Laimann (JL), Women’s Equality Network (WEN) Wales
Elinor Puzey (EP), Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) 
Victoria Vasey (VV), Women’s Equality Network (WEN) Wales
Melissa Wood (MEW), Cardiff University

Welsh Government officials

Matt Wellington (MAW), Head of Strategic Equality Human Rights and Delivery Planning 
Hena Thorne (HT), Human Rights policy lead 
Karyn Pittick (KP), Senior policy manager Human Rights
Danielle Burdett (DB), Policy manager Human Rights officer
Amanda Woodrow (AW), Policy manager Human Rights officer
Stevie Powell (SP), Equality policy and Government business officer

Apologies

Elisabeth Velina Jones (EJ), independent member
Simon Hoffman (SH), Swansea University

Papers

• Welsh Government response to the Equality and Social Justice Committee

Admin and membership updates

The Chair welcomed members, discussed the meeting’s agenda and addressed administrative points, including the approval of previous meeting minutes. The chair welcomed new member Melissa Wood and Stevie Powell from the Welsh Government secretariat team. The Chair informed members that Elisabeth Jones has agreed to rejoin the group.

Action point: Members to send any amendments to the previous minutes to the chair.

Action point: Chair to update and send final version of minutes to secretariat for finalising. 

The group discussed the need to follow up on the Disability Task Force recommendations and agreed to carry this action forward to the next meeting.

All other actions from the last meeting have been completed:

• The chair shared the folder for group materials and discussed the analysis of Article 19 of the CRPD, highlighting the need for more capacity to drive the work forward.
• An update was given at the last HRAG.
• WG colleagues have started analysis of question 4c.

Action point: WG colleagues to follow up regarding sharing of the Disability Taskforce’s recommendations.

Discussion with Melissa on initial application of the template

• MEW has met with HRAG members and wider stakeholders outside of this work to discuss the political landscape and other substantive matters. There is a sense of needing to move the work forward at a faster pace.

MEW discussed her analysis of Article 10 of CEDAW, focusing on education. There is a need to agree on the level of detail for the initial phase. A summary of themes/responses is listed below:

• The importance of focusing on the added value of incorporating these rights into Welsh law.
• Identifying deficits in the legislative landscape and the importance of understanding the context within Wales, especially regarding education and equality.
• Members highlighted the use of concluding observations and other sources to identify significant issues, and the need for thorough research and stakeholder consultation.
• The next steps including outlining suggestions for an interim report with the ultimate goal of a Green Paper.
• The  prioritisation of key issues and the feasibility of incorporating certain rights, considering the capacity and time constraints.
• MEW discussed the use of the concluding observations directly from the committee and general recommendation 36, which offers broader recommendations beyond the deficits mentioned when working on question 4 of the template. For part c, regarding Welsh Law and policy supporting implementation MEW provided some examples but could expand on this further with support from Welsh Government.
• The importance to involve all stakeholders as the work progresses and identify where the Welsh Government has or hasn’t met it’s action plans and policies regarding rights.
• Competency and equal opportunities under the Government of Wales Act was discussed and it was highlighted how the Welsh Government legal services will ultimately decide on competence. The group discussed identifying any actions or legislation within their expertise that fall under health and education, which seem to offer opportunities and initially, providing top-level impressions. MEW is willing to explore the question about redacting equalities language, which would need to be quite high level, especially concerning CEDAW and rights issues.
• The consideration of whether the Welsh Government should incorporate certain measures or explore other actions for quicker outcomes as alternatives may be more effective.
• MEW highlighted questions 6 and 7 with the need to identify deficits and solutions specific to Wales, possibly non-legislative. These methods can complement each other to improve access to justice. Specifically question 7, will involve examining guidance, ombudsman, or Commissioner powers that could be enhanced.

CW thanked MEW for her work and made the following points:

• Allowing the freedom to tweak the questions and templates when applying this methodology across treaties.
• Aim to provide a substantiative update at the next HRAG meeting.
• Instead of applying the entire template to CEDAW and CRDP, MEW will do a deep dive on a few rights, prioritizing deficits, core purposes, and solutions within the Welsh context.
• Focus first on health and education rights due to their broad scope and relevance across treaties. A suggested report structure includes right-by-right analysis rather than article-by-article. This approach accommodates potential expansion to other treaties. Each section will include an addendum detailing implementation measures via policy and non-legislative actions, aligning with previous group discussions.

• Suggestions for future steps included focusing on health and education rights, involving stakeholders, and considering both legislative and non-legislative measures.
• Members discussed the report structure and CW agreed to share the structure and gather feedback from members.
• MW suggested pooling LOWG’s expertise before the next HRAG meeting possibly through an afternoon session on CEDAW and another on CRDP to cover substantive points with experts.

Further actions:

• MEW to continue analysis and share findings.
• CW to gather feedback on the report structure from participants.
• To look at dates to pool LOWG’s expertise before the next HRAG meeting, possibly one afternoon on CEDAW and another on CRDP.