Ministerial Advisory Forum on Ageing meeting minutes: 19 June 2024

Professor John Williams, Academia, Aberystwyth University
Barry Stephens, Active Wales
Vicki Lloyd, Age Cymru, Chair 
Steve Milsom, Cymru Older People’s Alliance (COPA)
Sarah Rossington-Harris, Local Authority Age Friendly Network, Bridgend Council
Mirain Llwyd Roberts, Local Authority Age Friendly Network, Gwynedd Council
Cllr Hayley Gwilliam, Local Authority Age Friendly Network, Swansea Council
Dereck Roberts, National Pensioners Convention
Brian Godsell, National Pensioners Convention
Rachel Bowen, Office of the Older People’s Commissioner
Tania Harrington, Stonewall Cymru
Sarah Capstick, Welsh Local Government Association (WLGA)
Dawn Jeffery, Welsh Women’s Aid
Amal Beyrouty, Women Connect First
Rhiannon Ivens, Welsh Government
Rachel Lewis, Welsh Government
Emma Harney, Welsh Government
Gethin Edwards, Welsh Government
Nik Cilia, Welsh Government
Sally Hewitt, Welsh Government

Formal apologies

Jim McManus, Public Health Wales

The Chair welcomed everyone to the meeting and all members introduced themselves so that the Minster for Social Care could see the breadth of experience within the forum.

Formal apologies were noted.

The Minister for Social Care (MSC) addressed the group for the first time and introduced the first discussion item, focussing on MAFA’s work to address ageism and the promotion of older people’s rights. The following points were noted:

• there was a discussion regarding a proposal to create a national debate on ageism which was sent to the then Deputy Minister for Social Services in January. It is felt that we have a society that “rejects” older people. Areas such as digital inclusion are a very significant issue. Some older people are being discriminated against with the increased move towards a cashless society. Not everyone wants to be digital or can even afford to be digital
• there was a suggestion that Welsh Government (WG) and the Older People’s Commissioner took a similar approach to England by having an “Age Without Limits” campaign. Cymru Older People’s Alliance (COPA) have already submitted some ideas to officials at WG for consideration
• the MSC welcomes a further discussion to see how we can tackle ageism, noting that it is a huge problem.
• members of the National Pensioners Convention (NPC) Cymru noted examples of ageism that have been experienced by members
• Swansea local authority are looking at their own ageism campaign; they like the idea of a campaign which shows older people wearing hoodies in certain places and starting a conversation with younger people asking, “what do you think when you see this image.”
• members agreed that a campaign can be really effective. Reference was made to the “Time to Change Wales” campaign and the improvements in mental health following its publication
• Welsh Government plans such as the Anti Racist Wales Action Plan do not reference older people very much, if at all. Older people’s issues are often marginalised. How does ageism interact with other forms of discrimination such as race/disability/LGBTQ+?
• there was an acknowledgement of the additional challenges and ageism facing Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic people, for example accessing GPs and mental health services
• it was agreed that the media is damaging and regularly seems to set one generation between the other. However, there are so many issues that affect all individuals such as poverty. It can be seen as a joke when people are ageing, for example greeting cards in shops. The public need to be educated. Media portrayal erodes the understanding of what ageing is about
• the MSC responded to the discussion, confirming that she is seeking to address issues in Government regarding ageism in a number of ways. The Minister also hears about these issues within her constituency and also referred to the UK labour manifesto and the introduction of banking hubs whilst agreeing that individuals should have a choice. The Minister also agreed that some WG plans do not include reference to older people. We should not exclude people on the basis of their age, like we do not with race
• community and town councils are very supportive of this work and are very much on board to take this agenda forward

The following key points were noted:

• reference was made to funding; members need to be aware that WG may not have funding for a dedicated campaign at this stage
• It was agreed that the working group should have more representation from older people and also those from different backgrounds and organisations. The group needs external influences and therefore it was suggested that some engagement work is conducted with a smaller group doing the actual work. It was suggested that research and surveys are used within the process
• MAFA members said that they would be interested in hearing the experiences from England in reference to their ageism campaign
• it was agreed that a timetable and specific milestones are needed for the working group and it was suggested that the group should look at where the discrimination actually happens
• it was agreed that the group will commence in September with the initial aim of monthly meetings. This should be trialled until Christmas to build up some momentum

Actions

• Welsh Government officials to arrange monthly meetings of the new Older People’s Rights working group from September to Christmas
• MAFA member to nominate themselves to join the working group

Sally Hewitt joined the meeting and confirmed the following key points:

• the draft Mental Health and Wellbeing Strategy consultation closed on 11^th June 2024. Over 300 responses were received across to this and the Suicide and Self-Harm Prevention Strategy
• the all-age nature of the strategy ensures that there is system that supports everyone and that there is better linkage with different services
• from the responses in consultation, it is clear that the older age group needs to be more visible, and SH confirmed that she is happy to take comments from the group
• Welsh Government officials are working with stakeholders in relation to some of the findings from the responses. The consultation report should be published in October which will confirm timings for the final plan.
• It was highlighted that as discussed in a previous agenda item, there was little focus on older people within this plan. There are circa 80,000 older people experiencing mental health issues so services need to better address this oversight
• it was agreed by MAFA members that the “right place” is absolutely crucial with regard to mental health services. Reference was made to the rurality of Wales, where “place” can be too far away from services
• Sally Hewitt confirmed that the previous Dementia Action Plan 2018 is being externally evaluated. The interim report will be shared with secretariat to send to the group. Officials are looking to expand engagement with regards to the new plan. As the work develops, some MAFA members may wish to be actively involved in the group. If so, members can confirm with Secretariat

Actions

• Sally Hewitt to share interim evaluation report for Dementia Action Plan 2018, and Secretariat to circulate to MAFA members
• MAFA members to confirm whether they would like to be more involved with the engagement around the new Mental Health and Wellbeing Strategy

The following key points were noted:

• reference was made to the MAFA sub-group meeting that was held on 6 June 2024 which focussed on the delivery plan update. Confirmation was given that the note of that meeting will be circulated at the same time as this meeting note
• Rachel Lewis confirmed that the narrative report that will accompany the plan update will focus on Age Friendly, Digital Inclusion, Unpaid Carers, Cost of Living and Access to GPs
• the meeting on 6 June 2024 highlighted where cross-government working is not working as well and officials will be looking into this further
• the chair asked for an action to be noted that a formal letter would be issued by the MAFA group to the MSC to highlight the areas of concern, whilst also suggesting that the work around the town and community councils should be highlighted. Rachel Lewis re-enforced this approach and said that now is the right time to highlight the key issues to the MSC
• it was acknowledged that some of the other Welsh Government ministers need to be brought into the conversation as some of the issues sit in other parts of the Welsh Government portfolio
• It is hoped that officials will be in a position to publish the update by the end of the Senedd Term in July 2024

Actions

• note of meeting that was held on 6 June 2024 to be circulated along with the note of this meeting
• chair to write a letter on behalf of MAFA to the MSC to highlight areas of concern

It was agreed that the minutes of the last meeting were an accurate record. The Chair noted the action log from the previous meeting held on 12 March 2024 and confirmed that all but one action had been completed. The action around town and community councils was ongoing at this stage.

The following key points were noted:

• Rachel Lewis raised concerns that there was an unbalanced gender split within the MAFA group. Officials are not looking to change group members, however would like to invite more women which will give MAFA a fuller representation, diversity and a different perspective
• the chair agreed to open this offer to Age Cymru consultative groups and other groups and forums
• it was confirmed that there is a very proactive group in Swansea and there would definitely be women who would want to be involved with MAFA. Rachel Lewis asked MAFA members to submit the details of women who would be willing to join MAFA along with a short biography
• COPA are currently recruiting new trustees but may be able to put forward some names in November
• there was a suggestion to include Merched Y Wawr

Actions

• Chair to speak to Age Cymru consultative groups regarding the increase of female members on MAFA