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Colin Charman (CC) Natural Resources Wales, Sean Clement (SC) Marine Conservation Society / WEL, Nerys Edwards (NE) Syren Shellfish, Jim Evans (JE) Welsh Fishermen’s Association, Natalie Hold (NH) Bangor University, Hannah Thompson (HT) Seafish, Alan Winstone (AW) MSFOMA, Colin MacDonald (CM)

Welsh Government: Tamsin Brown (Chair), Alun Mortimer (secretariat), Julian Bray, Gary Douch, Shelley Vince, Caryn Le Roux, Amanda Wilson.


Gareth Bevington (GB) DD M&F Welsh Government, Carl Davies (Sea Fishing Trips), Lynn Gilmore (Seafish), Mark Gray (MG) Menai Seafood Company, John O’Connor (JO’C) Welsh Federation of Sea Anglers, Emily Williams (EW) RSPB / WEL,


  1. Welcome 10:00 - 10:10
  2. Review notes and actions (see Doc 1) 10:10 – 10:20
  3. Agree ToR update (see Doc 2) 10:20 – 10:40
  4. Welsh Government update 10:40 – 11:00
  5. Funding: new scheme to replace the EMFF (see Doc 3) 11:00 – 11:45
  6. Forward look & AOB 11:45 – 12:00


Doc 1: Notes and actions from meeting 1, on 14 July.
Doc 2: Updated Terms of Reference (ToR).
Doc 3: Funding Policy update


TB welcomed the group to the meeting and explained that GB is in the annual fisheries negotiations with the EU today.

2. Review notes and actions (see Doc 1)

Review of MAGWF - Meeting 1 notes (Doc 1):

Item 2 – JE It would be appreciated if we could have a copy of the WMFAG review please.

Item 3 – JE clarification: Whelk Order design was by task and finish group within WMFAG.

Review of actions (Doc 1):

  • Second WEL rep – completed SC as well as EW.
  • Co-management paper – rolled over
  • Update ToR to include aquaculture - completed

3. Agree ToR update (see Doc 2)

The following points were made:

  • Paragraph 1.2 had been updated – MAGWF will temporarily be the forum for species specific discussions until specific groups established.
  • Members noted the Joint Fisheries Statement (JFS) has now been published and there should be a link between MAGWF, the JFS and Wales specific fisheries strategy and this could be reflected in the ToR.
  • Later in the meeting, GD raised that an alternative option was for the industry to lead on a fisheries strategy.
  • Members would like to receive an update on priorities for Wales discussed in previous meeting.
  • Later in the meeting TB noted the Minister has said last time she spoke with the group that she didn’t want to bring in a strategy, but noted we can consider what could be done on this topic.
  • Paragraph 2.1 in ToR correction: WMAAG is now W-CASP.
  • Would be useful to have a list of members of the group and who they represent and how this group relates to other groups. A diagram of how it all fits together perhaps.
  • There are not many actual fishers in the group. It would be good if membership of the group were explained.
  • NH offered to share paper on co-management from academic perspective.

4. Welsh Government update

TB advised the Joint Fisheries Statement (JFS) was published yesterday. TB pointed the group to the joint Government Response and noted a written response has been sent to the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee, in the Senedd, following their scrutiny of the JFS consultation. ACTION – send link to written response - completed.

TB noted the desire to hold a more detailed session on the JFS in future, and sought views on what should be covered.

It was suggested it would be useful to have a JFS session before the next scheduled MAGWF meeting. Preferably before the forerunner FMPs go out to consultation to allow the group to provide any global feedback that others can take into account should they choose to respond to them.

Concerns were raised by the group on lack of detail in the JFS and how it fits in the Welsh context, as well as how it will be delivered and implemented in Wales. Having a road map was considered, or a document, not necessarily too detailed, to set out what the JFS means for Wales. TB acknowledged these points and noted that publication of the JFS is the start of a journey and is why we are keen to discuss further the delivery of the JFS policies in Wales.

There was discussion on FMPs, the following points were raised:

  • Some FMPs need evidence before management.
  • JE noted, we are signed up to FMP list but not an obvious picture about how we’re going to implement. The front runner FMPs have been worked on for some time. FMP work is a significant task to be understood and undertaken.
  • Plans for FMPs needs to be communicated and easier to relate to.
  • FMPs need something that will give us that roadmap. 6 frontrunners at the moment. Policy lab one probably the most advanced. Seafish ones at early stage.
  • DEFRA spoke about the Whelk approach in Wales as good practice. It was suggested this be repeated. A directional document between JFS and FMPs saying how we’re going to get them done would be helpful. Pace and ambition needed to get the FMPs done before we have to go back to the start (JFS reviewed in 6 years). There is a lot more in the JFS about food security. Interesting to consider what that means in Welsh context. Clarity on whether aquaculture is considered differently to catch fisheries would be welcomed.
  • NH noted there are differences between Bass and Scallop engagement and these approaches can be learned from for future FMPs. Having an independent group whose skills lie in facilitation, engagement, communication might be helpful. Potentially a third party undertaking this role. Six-year JFS timeframe but there need to be longer term timeframes (10-15 years) that those 6-year blocks sit within.

JB acknowledged the valuable points raised and noted:

  • The JFS was only published yesterday and there has been a lot of work undertaken to get it to this point.
  • There is some direction in how FMPs are being progressed by trialling different approaches first and we are learning a lot and having regular conversations with colleagues in the UK.
  • Example of bass and scallops FMP development in Wales taking very different paths. Bass FMP pre-consultation phase run by policy lab and scallops FMP being developed with a consultation group and Seafish.
  • FMPs may be higher level than expected but once done, we can move forward with measures.
  • Evidence for FMPs should be captured quite neatly due to the way they’re being established. When we come to the Whelk FMP, we’ll be in a different place because we already have monitoring and engagement etc in place.
  • Have to be realistic with what can be achieved given resource constraints.

TB raised the Retained EU Law Bill for awareness, and it was noted this could have a significant impact.  Written Statement: The Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill (3 November 2022) | GOV.WALES

TB noted the Autumn Statement and response from Welsh Government - for awareness – unclear what this means for our budgets. Written Statement: Welsh Government response to the UK Autumn Statement 2022 (17 November 2022) | GOV.WALES

CLR – CaSP Cymru is now underway. Main topics being explored are:

  • Ocean literacy, which is about how important the seas are in Wales. Working with schools, education, policy.
  • Sustainable investment and
  • Capacity building.

We would like to have more fisheries representatives on the group. Anyone who wants to be involved will be welcome. NE asked for more information.

5. Funding: new scheme to replace the EMFF (see Doc 3)

Power outage in Carmarthen area. AM delivered Funding Policy presentation as Gary Douch’s internet connection was not reliable.

Discussion regarding funding raised the following points:

NH recommended not watering down funding for replacing the EMFF.

The funding currently available through the Welsh Marine and Fisheries Scheme and Coastal Capacity Building initiative is £6.2m over 3-year period.

GD advised that Welsh stakeholders are not doing well out of UK Funds, hence using some of the funding for CCB to improve access.

JE Disappointed with the marketing measures that have come out so far. Welsh Ministers could have designed a scheme for Wales…could have addressed the issues known. Could have been more accessible.

Had some good meetings recently where we can tweak some of these things. Think the flexibility of it is a useful thing.  

NE - I feel strongly that round three funding should be focused on the ground, supporting the fishers with simple things like upgrading vessels & new iVMS systems to comply with all regulations & ensure vessels are fit for purpose.

GD canvassed for an aquaculture representative on the funding policy stakeholder advisory group. AW and Trevor Jones were proposed.

6. Forward look

Group members raised that another meeting sooner than next quarter would be advantageous to agree Welsh approach to JFS / FMPs. TB advised that this would be considered, otherwise the next meeting will be in approximately 3 months.


A query about iVMS was raised by JE and NE. Shelley Vince joined the meeting to answer. Summary of discussion:

Believe there is an issue with several of the iVMS transmitters. Not clear it has been transmitting as expected. NE has forwarded report to WG control and enforcement colleagues.

SV confirmed she had responded to each point raised by email. FAQs on the website answers some of these questions. We are speaking to AST (hardware provider) about fishers not being able to see their information. We are aware that AST struggled to do a software update recently from the FMC. Possible devices were out of range or charge at the time or there was a fault. Devices are all covered under warranty at the moment. Faults raised are logged and can collate this information.

Closing (at 12:15)


  1. WG: consider updates and amendments to ToR as discussed. Completed.
  2. NH: share academic co-management paper. Secretariat to share with group.
  3. WG: share JFS and Government Response links. Completed.
  4. WG: consider arranging a meeting to discuss JFS for Wales before next quarterly meeting. Completed - this was not possible.
  5. WG: share CaSP info with NE. Completed.
  6. WG: share Coastal Capacity Building workshop papers. Completed: see link: Coastal Community Capacity Building Evidence-Synthesis report | GOV.WALES