Social Partnership Council meeting 4 June 2025: minutes

1. The First Minister welcomed attendees to the seventh meeting of the Social Partnership Council (SPC). She provided an overview of the agenda, confirming she would leave after item 3 and that the Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership would then chair the remainder of the meeting. Before moving to the agenda, the First Minister confirmed Ben Cottam would be formally resigning from the SPC (effective from the 1 August) and thanked him for all his work at the Council as well as other forums where he had represented the FSB. 

2. The purpose of this item was for the First Minister to consult the SPC on the annual review of the Welsh Government’s well-being objectives. The information provided to members was not in the public domain and so could not be disclosed.
    
3. The First Minister outlined the current position of the annual review and some of the difficult decisions that had been made given the challenges of the current economic climate.  
    
4. Following the First Minister’s update members provided their views on the review. The comments raised would be fed back to the relevant Cabinet Secretaries and Ministers, but due to the confidential status of the discussion, it was agreed these would not be recorded in the minute. 

Action: SPC Secretariat to ensure the UK Government’s Industrial Strategy is discussed at a future meeting of the SPC once it has been published.

5. The purpose of this item was for the SPC to agree the Draft Welsh Government Social Partnership Annual Report.
    
6. The First Minister reminded members that the report had been discussed at the last SPC in March and that their views had been included as part of the final draft submitted to them for this meeting.
    
7. The SPC agreed the Welsh Government Social Partnership Annual Report. 

Action: SPC Secretariat to arrange for the Welsh Government Social Partnership Annual Report to be laid before the Senedd and published on the SPC website.

8. The Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership asked the SPC to note the draft Section 9(5) guidance on the composition of the Procurement Subgroup which reflected earlier conversations with members. The Minister explained that the paper for this item described the process that would be followed to appoint members to the Subgroup and that the intention was that the chairs (once nominated and agreed) would then progress this with officials. He asked members if they were content to agree the guidance and the table provided with the paper or, offer any specific amendments. The Minister added that officials would be content to organise a briefing session for the SPC and their colleagues on any of the matters covered in the paper.
    
9. Shavanah Taj (TUC Cymru) welcomed the progress that had been made and stressed the importance of this work to the trade unions in creating a fairer economy for working people. Shavanah confirmed the trade unions were seeking a co-chair for the Subgroup with the relevant experience and would feedback progress to the SPC in due course.
    
10. The SPC agreed the Section 9(5) guidance.
     
11. The Minister confirmed a briefing session on the guidance and related matters in the paper would be offered to SPC members and their colleagues by officials.
     
12. Dame Elan Closs-Stephens (Public Leaders Forum) raised the process for publicising the invitation for expressions of interest to serve on the Subgroup. She asked whether this would be requested through her as the chair of the Public Leaders Forum or whether individual organisations would be contacted directly.
     
13. The Minister said officials would provide clarity on the expressions of interest process to SPC members. 

Action: SPC Secretariat to offer a briefing session for Council members and their colleagues on the Section 9(5) guidance and related matters contained in the paper.

Action: SPC Secretariat to provide clarification on the expression of interest process.

14. The Minister said that an update on the Employment Rights Bill had been specifically requested by Jess Turner (Unison) and that the paper for this item built upon previous updates provided to the SPC. He highlighted that he was particularly pleased that in relation to Fair Pay Agreements in social care, they had successfully negotiated delegated powers allowing Welsh Ministers to establish a bespoke negotiating body for Wales covering both children’s and adult services.
     
15. The Minister explained that the Bill continued to make good progress towards Royal Assent and would deliver the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights in a generation through enhancing employment rights, strengthening their enforcement, and modernising industrial relations. He outlined how the Bill would improve job security, working conditions, boost productivity, prevent poor employment practices and restore a balance to industrial relations by removing unnecessary restrictions on trade unions. The Minister concluded by saying the Welsh Government was working constructively with the UK Government and that Legislative Consent Motions (LCMs) were being prepared on the Bill for the Senedd to consider.
     
16. Ruth Brady (GMB) thanked the Minister for his update and asked if he was confident that workers in Wales would benefit from the provisions in the Bill regarding social care pay and the School Support Staff Negotiating Body (SSSNB).
     
17. The Minister confirmed that the Minister for Children and Social Care was progressing negotiations on the Fair Pay Agreements for social care staff. He explained that the provisions in the Bill covering the SSSNB were England only and that the Senedd had the legislative competence to make provisions in respect of school support staff. The Minister added that the Cabinet Secretary for Education was committed to building on existing efforts to ensure the needs of support staff were fully considered in the Strategic Education Workforce Plan. He said that if necessary, the Senedd had the legislative competence to make provision for a school support staff negotiating body in Wales. The Minister said he would ask Welsh Government officials to provide a written briefing on this to SPC members.
     
18. Shavanah Taj emphasised the importance of the Bill to the trade unions given its potential to improve workers’ conditions. She referenced the legislative consent debate on the Bill that would take place at the Senedd later in the month and said that the trade unions were preparing a briefing on the importance of its provisions for them. This would also be made available to the Minister and SPC members.
     
19. The Minister said that the date of the debate on the Bill and related LCMs in the Senedd could be subject to change and that members would be kept informed on this. 

Action: Welsh Government officials to provide a written briefing to SPC members on the current position in relation to arrangements for pay and conditions for school support staff in Wales.  

Action: SPC Secretariat to be kept informed of the Senedd’s timetable for debating the Employment Rights Bill and related LCMs. 

20. The Minister thanked Ben Cottam for jointly chairing the Working Group on Fair Work in Business Grants ahead of his departure from the SPC. He confirmed the Working Group had held its first meeting on the 6 May and asked Peter Hughes, who had chaired the meeting (as the other joint chair) to provide an update to the SPC.
     
21. Peter Hughes (Unite) also thanked Ben Cottam for his involvement in chairing the Working Group. Peter confirmed there had been a positive first meeting which had agreed the core objectives, terms of reference and meeting schedules. He emphasised the importance of maintaining pace at the Working Group and that representatives from the Scottish Government would attend the next meeting to share the experience of their Fair Work First policy.
     
22. Ben Cottam welcomed the progress made including the agreement of a workplan and emphasised the importance of maintaining focus for what would be a demanding agenda going forward.
     
23. The Minister thanked the joint chairs and noted that a replacement for Ben Cottam would be needed ahead of his departure in August. 

24. The Minister explained that the paper for this item outlined the position of the SPC issuing statements. He reminded members that the SPC could issue a statement of their advice to Ministers but only in limited circumstances and that all members would need to agree to the statement.
     
25. Gareth Lloyd (UCU) expressed disappointment that it had not been possible to agree an SPC statement regarding potential redundancies within the HE sector. Gareth outlined the challenges facing post-16 education in Wales and referenced on-going concerns over the potential for compulsory redundancies within several institutions. He felt these were not working in social partnership and were offering limited support to the staff affected.  
     
26. Shavanah Taj suggested that a session outside of a formal meeting of the SPC could be arranged to work through how members could aim to find consensus when an agreement could not be reached.   
     
27. Ben Cottam supported Shavanah’s suggestion. Ben emphasised how different the organisations represented at the SPC were and the limitations of what they could sanction from their individual perspectives. He expressed concern that statements did not become the default approach of the SPC and the need to clarify how and when they could be used.
     
28. The Minister explained that the legislation was clear that the SPC existed to provide advice to Ministers and was not outward facing. The Minister reiterated that a statement would need to be endorsed by all members and would need to represent advice to Ministers. He supported the need to hold a further conversation outside of this meeting to explore options for providing advice from the SPC and reaching consensus. He said officials would arrange a workshop so that this issue could be considered further.  

Action: SPC Secretariat to arrange a workshop to discuss the issue of how to reach consensus on advice in social partnership.

29. The Minister explained that the Workforce Partnership Council (WPC) had produced valuable work on the ethical use of artificial intelligence (AI) and that he was keen to build on this in developing the SPC’s own approach. He emphasised the pace of AI and the need for the SPC to avoid duplication. The Minister confirmed a meeting was being arranged with Amber Courtney (a key member of the WPC’s AI Working Group) to draw on her experience regarding potential next steps. He said that once this meeting had taken place officials would develop a paper for the SPC to consider at its next meeting.
     
30. Shavanah Taj referenced the importance of developing an approach at the SPC which recognised the benefits of AI for workers and which supported them in the future as this technology evolved. Shavanah explained that discussions were on-going within the trade unions about developing work on AI for the devolved services and that she would be able to provide an update at a future meeting. She also referenced the possibility of developing a toolkit to accompany the WPC’s AI guidance and the value of developing best practice examples so people could see how ethical AI implementation looked.
     
31. Russell Greenslade (CBI) reiterated the pace at which AI was progressing and said that businesses were seeking to develop a balanced approach that recognised the benefits of AI to them whilst supporting employees. Russell emphasised the priority being given to AI by businesses especially with the forthcoming publication of the UK Government’s Industrial Strategy.
     
32. The Minister welcomed the prioritisation given to AI by businesses and emphasised the importance of the SPC adding value and implementing this technology ethically.
     
33. Ben Cottam highlighted the interest in AI by smaller businesses but flagged relatively low levels of adoption and understanding at present. Ben referenced the value in the public and private sectors learning from each other regarding implementation as well as using AI to upskill workforces.
     
34. The Minister supported the idea of the public and private sectors learning from each other. He added that the First Minister had recently showcased the WPC’s work on AI at the Council of Nations and Regions where delegates had shown a keen interest. The Minister emphasised the need to start progressing this work and that a more substantive discussion would be held at the next meeting of the SPC based on the paper that would be prepared.

Action: SPC Secretariat to ensure a paper is provided for the next meeting of the Council on potential next steps regarding the ethical use of AI.

35. The Minister said there were eight on-going actions arising from previous meetings of the SPC and outlined these. He asked members if they were content to agree them. 
     
36. The SPC agreed the actions arising. 

37. The Minister informed members that a change of date was required for the next meeting of the SPC suggesting it be bought forward to the 15 September. This was to accommodate an agenda item on the annual budget, which would allow time for meaningful consultation with the SPC.
     
38. Regarding the venue, the Minister provided results of a poll that was circulated to members to establish their preferences as to where the next SPC should be held. He explained that not all members had responded but that the preference was for a location in south-west Wales.
     
39. Members agreed to this location preference. 
     
40. Dame Elan Clos-Stephens and Gareth Lloyd gave apologies ahead of the 15 September meeting.
     
41. Shavanah Taj asked for the time of the meeting to be provided to members as soon as possible so they could make suitable travel arrangements. 
     
42. The Minister agreed, confirming it would be in the morning and that officials would provide more detail in due course. 
     
43. The Minister also confirmed that he wished to bring a meeting of the SPC to North Wales in the future.

Action: The SPC Secretariat to confirm details of the 15 September meeting of the Council to members in due course. 

44. The Minister confirmed that six Social Partnership Annual reports had been received so far from public bodies. He explained that it was difficult to conduct analysis on such a small set of reports but that further updates will be provided. The Minister confirmed that all 55 reports would eventually be shared with members.

Worker Representatives 

Ruth Brady, GMB
Neil Butler, NASUWT
Gareth Lloyd, UCU
Shavanah Taj, TUC Cymru  
Mike Walker, USDAW
Peter Hughes, Unite
Sian Boyles, PCS

Employer Representatives 

Pippa Britton, Voluntary Sector
Dame Elan Closs-Stephens, Public Bodies
Nicola Prygodzicz, Health
Janis Richards, Business
Ben Cottam, Business 
Russell Greenslade, Business

Welsh Government

Eluned Morgan MS, Prif Weinidog
Jack Sargeant MS, Minister for Culture, Skills and Social Partnership
Jo Salway
Sinead Gallagher
Josh Vuglar
Amy Dietrich
Sue Hurrell

Observers

Chris Llewellyn, WLGA
Gwen Williams (in place of Prof. Wendy Larner)
Simon Dunne (in place of Jess Turner)

Apologies

Helen Whyley, RCN Wales
Jess Turner, UNISON
Kathryn Robson, Further Education
Prof. Wendy Larner, Higher Education
Cllr Anthony Hunt, Local Government